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Please read this important info!!! You are not registered yet. Please click here to register! September 16th, The program uses the simulation techniques that have cvsfrack used in the Excel spread sheets.

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To experiment try changing N7: The number should be in the range of about to or Now I have some questions. The PID control seems very coarse. The time constants only allow a few digits of precision.

Also, the controller gain Kc I used was 3. ALso, I had to leave the set point max at even though the highest set point I would use is about degree Any clues as to how to make this better are welcome. Find More Posts by Peter Nachtwey. Peter, This could be perfect timing for me. I have a temperature application coming up in about 3 weeks using a Micrologix I will be controlling two IR heaters in a small thermoforming that I am building.

I have downloaded your program to my test bench and I will install the TC card for the above app. Greetings Peter, please check the link in your first post I’d like to take a look at your code, but the link’s not working for me Find More Posts by Ron Beaufort.

Ron- I tried it and it is working for me. I just checked the link and it works for me too. I usually check each link just after I post it. You can just browse and download what you want.

I am interested in your comments since you have spent a lot if time with Rockwell PIDs. I know you have spent a lot of time at the mrplc. I haven’t said much because I know they have been in capable hands and I really don’t know much about using other peoples PID. If you can supply the. I like the performance of the SMC better. Greetings Peter, I’m not sure why the first link wouldn’t work for me I’ll just put it down to my company’s network security settings I’m looking forward to going over this in great detail just as soon as my workload permits I always recommend turning it on for the extra decimal place it allows for the Proportional and Integral settings I’ll be back in touch just as soon as I’ve had a chance to dig through it all September 17th, Compare this trend with the RG bit set and the trend without the RG bit set in the first post.


I also have questions that I can’t find the answers to in the on-line help: If I set the integrator time constant to zero, what does it do? Hopefully it disables the integrator. What are the units for Kc? It isn’t documented in the on-line help. The documentation indicates that registers 17 and 18 are the integral sum.

How can I force this to zero? You can see the PD9: What is the integral sum? Is the the sum of errors or the last output? If the integral sum is the sum of errors then the PID is flawed because you can change the integrator gain on-the-fly.

From what I have seen it looks like the integral sum is the sum of errors which is too bad. I was satisfied with the results without the RG bit. The response was very close to what I predicted except the output was very coarse.

The RG bit seems to make the differentiator much less or not effective. This causes the system to be less stable. As I have pointed out during the PID spreadsheet threads, one should not use the position or absolute for of PID if the output is going to saturate. Because the position or absolute form of integrator ALWAYS overshoots the set point because that is the only way the integrator can unwind.

When the PID saturates, the integrator keeps winding up which causes severe overshoot.

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It doesn’t have to but then one must know how to implement a PID. How can one find out what the units of Kc, the controller gain? For temperature control I would use the SMC program from last summer. September 18th, Peter, Very interesting stuff. Overall I find them simple, stable and dead easy to use as long as I ensure the loop update vcstrack are correctly handled.

filetype, ||memetracker filetype wks|| – libraryclips filetype rtf

Is your Loop Update time correctly set? The value cvsrtack the Integral word is in the element PD. Setting KI to zero disables the integrator. On top of this I always use Setpoint ramping in order to ensure that I am never hitting the loop with excessive error. For a process with a relatively constant load this works well. When tuning the loop I normally just find a value for KC that is stable, and this then defines the rate cvstrsck which the PV will change.

By setting the SP ramp rate to be say 0. If done carefully it does not compromise loop performance mush and it certainly eliminates overshoots.


I use a very primitive tuning “algorithm” KC determines the rate of response at large errors, and KI detemines the rate of response at small errors. Most times Cvstracl get a stable loop just by watching the trend plot with just these two ideas in mind. Yes I could apply more sopshisticated techniques, but most loops don’t demand much more. Last edited by PhilipW; September 18th, at Find More Posts by PhilipW.

IS is documented somewhere in the MicroLogix hardcopy manual. I don’t have it at home and the Rockwell Support Site is down for maintenance this filety;e. Its 32 bit long. Some aspects of it I would do differently now, but the neat trick I developed for the Capacity Slide position control in File 8 Rungs 17, 18 I recall with fondness.

This was before Timed Proportional Output was part of the firmware. September 19th, I hope this helps Last edited by Ron Beaufort; September 19th, at Philip, I haven’t tried accessing the.

Yes, Kc is unitless. Ron, I will have try your experiment, but I have found that setting the integrator time constant to 0 only keeps the integrator from winding up or down. It doesn’t clear the.

The coarse output I complained about is due to the differentiator. I wrote my own PID and I found that each time foletype PV changes by 1 unitt the output may change by as much as units depending on the differentiator time constant.

Obviously, Rockwell must filter this as I had too. When the RG bit is set the output looks a lot smoother yet, but I think they might have gone over board on the filtering as the differentiator seems to have lost its effectiveness as shown above in the two graphs using the same gains. The only other way to solve this problem is to have more resolution on the feedback.

I don’t NOT like the way Rockwell implemented the integral sum. The built in PID’s integrator can only unwind by overshooting the set point and if Cvstrqck change gains on the fly the output takes a BIG jump. This does not happen in the incremental form of PID. I also wonder how one goes from auto to manual and back without causing a the output to make a big jump.

When going form manual to auto, one would needs to take the current output and used the integrator gain to calculate what the integrated sum should be so when the system is put in auto there will not be a big jump in the output. This is not necessary using the velocity or incremental form.